CollegeCandy: I’m a big proponent of being friendly with your professors because obviously if you’re a jerk and act like you don’t care, it’s going to reflect in your grades. However, there are some students who are buddy buddy with their professors, and sometimes that can get a little weird. I’m not sure how I feel about getting meals or hanging out with my professor. Don’t get me wrong, I think there are certain instances when it’s okay to be legitimate friends like if they’re around your age or you’ve had them every semester. But even then, a professor is still a professor. So where’s the line between being friendly and being friends?
Monday, October 17, 2011
How Friendly Is Too Friendly With Professors?
CollegeCandy: I’m a big proponent of being friendly with your professors because obviously if you’re a jerk and act like you don’t care, it’s going to reflect in your grades. However, there are some students who are buddy buddy with their professors, and sometimes that can get a little weird. I’m not sure how I feel about getting meals or hanging out with my professor. Don’t get me wrong, I think there are certain instances when it’s okay to be legitimate friends like if they’re around your age or you’ve had them every semester. But even then, a professor is still a professor. So where’s the line between being friendly and being friends?
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24 comments:
If this author considers writing as something that forces you to become vulnerable; she would do well to stay away from theatre.
The teacherer/student relationship is, by its very nature, a relationship based on a hierarchy. There is a master/servant aspect to it, even if we'd never dream of using those words specifically. One of us knows something other wants/needs to know and there is an agreement that, so long as this knowledge is being taught/learned, that this relationship will be respected.
When I was teaching high school students, I think there was a tendency for all of us to treat that assumption in name only; partly because it was theatre. Being friendly and helpful and treating your students as equals helps lower barriers you might otherwise encounter. Still, there are times when the "I'm in charge" mentality needs to be applied, either for someone's safety or to just get the work done. The trick, I guess, is to know when that mentality is necessary or not.
This is always a tough subject to address because a lot of time it depends on who you are teaching. But as a professional you have to have a specific set of rules so it makes this harder. I agree with Jake that relationships like this are built on a hierarchy but I also have never viewed a Professor as a close friend until I graduated. In my experience Professors will keep a certain amount of personal distance from students, as they should, and this results in a less close connection. There is no answer on how friendly is too friendly because it differs from person to person. My advice is always to start out cautiously until you realize what the boundaries they have are.
I have noticed that the relationship between teachers/students is drastically different in nearly every environment, so it really is a case-by-case situation in my eyes. That being said, I do feel that there should be a certain level of professionalism despite whatever close connections are formed through close proximity, and this should also be true in the professional world. I think here in the school of drama, where we work with our teachers in a variety of capacities (in multiple classes as well as on shows), the lines can get a little blurred as to "how friendly is too friendly," but by being open to the personality types and emotions of the individuals we are working with, there should hopefully be enough room for conversation that this wouldn't become an issue.
This question always comes up and it is a very thin grey line between friendly and too friendly depending on the area that the professor is in. I have found that professors in a theatre department are always friendlier with their students, than say a Psychology or an Economics professor. The dynamics of the relationships are different. However what must always remain is a clear boundary of appropriate and inappropriate. For example, as the as the comment said, you should not be going to lunch every day or partying with a professor frequently, because there still needs to be that disconnect. I also find that I am significantly closer with all of my professors after graduating, because you no longer see them as "the grader" and they no longer see you as a student.
The line between friend and professor in my mind cannot be drawn at a specific point. You can have a professor who is a friend, but it can be a professional relationship, a professor who is specifically a friend, or one who is only a professor. To me, these are all fine if you know the boundaries and do not cross the line within your work. Once you have a professor that you made a connection with, they might become more of a friend if you do not have classes with them anymore then a mentor. At what stage you become a friend compared to a mentor should be on a personal basis, it should be between the individuals to keep it professional when needed and respect the norms of society.
I agree with Brooke that it depends on the environment. I know here we can be really friendly with teachers, but in any other schools at cmu (maybe cfa is an exception in general) the relationships are extremely different. Students don't call their teachers by their first name and its just more formal in general. We are probably less formal because we do have the same teachers for practically 4 years and our class sizes are small in comparison to the lectures and other large class sizes in the other departments.
The line between teacher and student can be particularly confusing in more creative fields. The author definitely has a point when she makes that note, because by the nature of our classes we are supposed to be exposing our vulnerabilities and our more personal thoughts in our work. This cannot help but degrade the professional, business like relationship between student and teacher. However, I do think that when students get too comfortable with teachers it can make the class dynamic uncomfortable for the other teachers. And I mean this in a more extreme way- I think it's fine to joke with your teacher, call them by their first name, treat them as a friend. But I had a class last year in which one of my classmates treated the teacher far too familiarly, referencing inside jokes that they had in front of the other people, hitting each other, having dinner at the teacher's house and chatting about it during critiques.... that's where there needs to be a line drawn.
While the article touches on a good point, I think that it touches on an issue that exists is departments where there is initially and naturally more separation between professors and students and that bonding requires more effort. In most departments, you have put considerably more effort into going beyond student/teacher relationships then we do in drama since we see our professors every day, normally in ways that are not confined to classes.
I think that it is okay for professors and students to be "friends" but not during classtime. During friends you can have a friendly professor CLASS releationship, but the reason this is an issue at all is because of favoritisim and creating an equally comfortable environment for all of the students. Going out to meals or events with teachers makes the classroom awkward for all the other students who then feel like they come as a second priority to the other student. This is why parents don't teach their own children in the classroom.
Bottom line, where the point is that provides the greatest amount of comfort and open communication for each studnet.
I only seem to have become friends with my professors/teachers from high school once we are no longer in the teacher-student setting: it has never seemed possible to be friends while also being linked in an academic setting. Still, college seems to have different lines than high school: I have quite a few teachers' cell phone numbers and have texted them with questions, something that in some cases could cross a border from academic into more casual and social. Still, I'd have to say it's a case-by-case thing, and that especially when the age gap is low, developing a relationship must be done with caution.
I think the issue goes deeper than are professors/teachers the student’s friends. The question is who is your friend? I feel that the word "friend" is thrown around a little to loosely. If the professor invites you into his/her home on a regular basis and you accept then I believe you are friends. But just because you share a nice working relationship does not make you friends. You can’t be friends with someone until you know them on a personal level, not just professional. How many professors do you truly know on a personal level? Or better yet, how many people that you call “friend” do you know on a personal level?
Brooke mentioned that in the School of Drama, the question of "How friendly is too friendly" is hard to answer, because we work in so many varying capacities. From classes, to in-school productions, and out of school projects. A lot of what we specifically encounter in the School of Drama is not solely a student - teacher relationship, but a professional relationship, with professional expectations and actions.
If we extend this idea of professionalism into the entire teaching industry, it is not only a teacher's responsibility to provide information and guidance, but it is their responsibility to provide structure and boundaries with their students. How are students able to grow if they are constantly having their hands held? Subsequently, teachers are people, and they shouldn't be cold to or ignore their students, but they should separate the expectations of their profession with the personal relationships they may have with their students.
who is this writer and have they done any research on what they are writing about? The way that their are pre-conceived notions of hierarchy in a teacher ,student relationship is evident in any situation where there are both variables however making generalizations like they do in this article discredits this author quite a bit. in this situation as in any relationship of any kind between anything material or not... it DEPENDS. the sooner some people understand that the sooner they stop wasting thier time trying to predict things and make statements about things they cant predict or control.
This article takes an interesting perspective when translated into the theatre world. Within drama school it's a strange relationship with professors as many are also peers within the industry especially with older students or younger professors.
The article also mentions calling to professor by their professional name, but that always seems so strange to me with the first name basis everyone is on at SOD. I never think to call someone Mr., Mrs., Professor, or Dr. except for Doc Chemers. But within the rest of the university I don't think I have ever called another Professor by their first name, though I often forget and try to. Its a very strange dichotomy between theatre and the rest of the university.
My main question after reading this article is, who cares if you are good friends with your teacher or not? Surely you could go into moral questions or topics of favoritism, but at the end of the day I don't know that its as big of a deal as this writer makes it out to be. I would make the comparison between teacher/student to that of boss/employee. If an employee became good friends with their boss it wouldn't be that big of a deal. No matter what the age relationship was. So I don't know what the big deal is with being friends with your teachers, or supervisors or bosses for that matter.
Tough topic to articulate, but I think the author of this article made some good points. There are certain academic programs on college campuses that require a differnt kind of relationship with your professors. Often that falls into the realm of art, architecture, theatre, creative writing, etc... In each of these dispiplines, you are puttign a good deal of yourself out there- your opinions, stories, influences, and expressing them in a way that needs to be critiqued by a professor in order to help you refine your METHOD of expression. When you compare that to other subjects - where it is often the difference between a right and a wrong answer that we discuss - I feel like we ("arts kids") got the better end of that deal. That just comes with the disclaimer that a different attitude about professional relationships with teachers needs to be understood.
I agree with the author that there has to be a line that neither a student nor a teacher should cross when it comes to a student teacher relationship. it is a profesional relationship and it is important that you work well together and communicate properly. it is also important to know who they are a s a person but at the end of the day it is a hierarchical relationship. like the article said a teacher should be more of a mentor than a friend. neither a teacher nor a student should look for more while they still have the student teacher relationship.
The author does note that the arts, creative writing and theatre both being examples, tend to foster closer relationships between instructor and student. Given the type of work we do here, it is natural to form closer relationships with our instructors than we might do here. Though I do not think these lines often get overstepped here. In my previous institution of higher education there were faculty/staff known to enjoy a bit of weed with their students. Was that too much? I don't think so, because the students and faculty always kept the hierarchy between them... wether or not they were breaking the law.
I agree with Brooke as well. The environment plays a huge role in how casual relationship one has with a professor. Not only does the environment of the school, but also the environment of the classroom. I have found that the personalities and number of people in the room play a larger role in the relationships formed between student and professor.
In a way, the author of this article makes this issue a little too black and white. It's not so simple as to say that you shouldn't get lunch with your professor, etc., especially in with what we do. I often feel that the ball is in the professor's court when it comes to this situation. It is important to keep it a professional relationship, but when you spend so much time with your professors in classes and production, it's not so simple. I think that as long as there is no issue when it comes to grading, and both parties are comfortable with the relationship that exists, it's ok to be friendly with your professor.
This is a tough line to draw in theatre. Jacob makes a good point that the teacher student relationship is inherently hierarchical and based on the idea of some sort of exchange, but in theatre education this is a bit fuzzy. We are told from the get go to call our professors by their first names and interact with them as if they are peers to get the most out of our education. In our world, these lines are sometimes blurred to a near awkward point. Thankfully at CMU there aren't any (as far as I know) inappropriate breaches of this relationship. It mostly stops at meeting a professor for coffee to discuss the latest Spiderman related accident.
There seems to be an idea here that someone can't be both a mentor and a friend, which I don't quite understand. Personally, I think a mentor becomes an even stronger guidance figure if you ARE friends with the student. It creates a much stronger bond of trust. I do agree that there needs to be a level of professionalism in the classroom, but as long as both student and professor are mature about it, I don't see it being a problem. As Calvin said, people wouldn't be making such a big deal about it if we were talking about a boss/employee relationship.
I think the writer is making two big of a deal out of the subject and as long as it doesn't get too close that is fine but even that point is subjective. However, as Charles mentioned, professors doing weed with other students I feel is completely crossing the line. They shouldn't be engaging in illicit activities whether it be drugs, trespassing on roofs, etc. That is crossing some line for sure.
You know, you guys can call me "Michael" if you want to. Nobody seems to like doing that.
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