Dimmer Beach: I’m not sure what took me so long getting around to write this post, but maybe this will help communication between road crew and local crew just a little bit. This is something for the local crew to remember when a show comes to your venue.
We don’t know what you know - so we often fear the worst.
21 comments:
This might be a strange thing to say, but I see a lot of parallels between the situations in this article and the situations many of us find ourselves in during crew. Between freshmen and sophomores, and between individual students, there is a huge variance of what we know how to do, and the crew heads have no idea. I mean, there's no reason they should. We all have had difference internships, learning experiences, and even just different crew calls that have taught us a wide variety but with large gaps. For example, if you were on costumes crew for Lord of the Flies last year, you probably are very experienced in distressing clothing since that was such a large part of the show design, and know exactly what to do if someone says "Hey, distress these pants for me." However, if you were on costumes crew during a different show you might have no idea what to do, even if you're a sophomore and theoretically should have a broader knowledge of skills. A lot of times I am frustrated with the way crew works at CMU because crew heads often assume we know things that we don't, or do the opposite and assume we know nothing about something that we're actually quite proficient at. The only way to beat this is to make sure communication between you and your crew head is very open, and that an environment for this kind of "meeting people where they're at" attitude is clear.
I think this article does a really good job at explaining the situation at hand because the author supports both sides of the interaction and validates both. Having no experience on either side of this kind of interaction, this article seemed to make a lot of sense when it came to the solution to the problem, but I could also see how some of the actions that needed to be taken seemed mean. I can't imagine what its like going form one load-in to the next, not knowing what kind of help you will be getting so I can totally understand why assuming that the local crew doesn't know a lot is easier. I think this article might be the most helpful for the local crew to read because I think that the road crew knows why they have to be the way they are, but the local crew might not understand all that the road crew is going through.
Wasn't there an article last weeks about how the road crew is liable of rate set up for the show and as local crew you should listen to them and not try to do things your own way? That article was a lot more aggressive than this one, and did a much worse job at giving specific examples. This article, on the other hand, gave examples both of times were he was the local crew not being trusted and times when he trusted too much. And really I think the takeaway is to never presume you know everything, to instead listen to what the person in charge is asking you to do, and like he says, to do it faster than they expected. The best way to prove you know something to someone who thinks you know nothing is not to tell them you know everything, but to simply show them. Actions speak louder than words as the old adage says.
I think he makes a very interesting point that you cannot really trust a local crew to do a certain job because you have had past experiences that have proved you cannot trust everyone. It probably sounds very insulting in the moment when someone does not trust you, but you have to think about all of the other crew members around the country that they could have worked with that are not very good. If a touring crew trusted a local crew to do something important and then they messed it up and someone got hurt, it would be your fault for not making sure it was perfect. If something is done wrong, there is a good chance that it is a safety hazard. When safety is involved, people’s feelings do not matter as much. Local crews are probably used to touring crews coming in and wanting to do most of the work especially the important jobs. It is probably faster for them to just do the job than to explain it to other people.
Having sometimes been the local crew guy a few times, I really have no issue what so ever with what he is saying. There have been a few big union calls where I think “wow, this other local guy really doesn’t know what he is doing” And while it may be a petty honor to be one of the local crew guys who they trust with a hammer, but its still an honor, because the road crew spotted that you probably wouldn’t hurt yourself, others or the stuff with that hammer. Everyone else on the call just spent the whole time pushing boxes around. I have never been road crew for a show, but I have been in charge of crews full of people I don’t know before, and I imagine that the experience is a little similar. You have to finish what you have got to do using all of the labor that you’ve got, and sometimes that is a tricky balance between trusting others and just doing it yourself. There is a particular way you’ve got to ask people if they know what they are doing before they get offended.
I think Lucy makes a good point comparing this article to crew here at CMU. With the exception of sophomore crews when the person been working in that department for a few weeks it is impossible for the crew heads to know the experience and abilities of everyone working for them. I’m lucky since most of the time I’ve been working on crews that had good open lines of communication and it was possible to figure out who knew what and what people needed to be taught. Even with that I’d imagine that it would be nerve racking to turn a project over to someone who you don’t really know and that’s with our crew heads being able to operate under the set of assumptions that come with us being a school (ie if they have to go correct someone about how to do something that person will probably take it in stride since we’re here because we’re learning not since we already know how to do everything and people won’t mind being asked if they know how to do things). For touring crews interacting with local crews that nervousness must be even worse. They don’t know if the people they’re working with will know how to do what they need them to and they don’t know how they’ll react to being asked what they know.
Like both Noah and Lucy mentioned above, it's funny that this article does sort of remind me of the crew environment sometimes here at CMU! Obviously when you're a freshman, you're new and you want to show the world that your capable so you're going to say "yes" to more things that you have no clue how to accomplish. I feel like as a current sophomore, whenever I'm a crew head (usually for costumes) I always try to feel out and understand everyone's skill level. I also think it's important to let freshman crew know that if they have any questions, to not hesitate to ask. Being on crew, especially in an educational institution, is time for labor yes, but also a learning opportunity. I know that with inexperienced crew, I may have to redo a couple of things but what keeps me positive is knowing that the most important thing is that they are learning a new skill. I know that if I was in their shoes, I would greatly appreciate someone taking their time to help me through the baby steps instead of scoffing and being condescending. I feel grateful and appreciative of the many times I have not known how to do something and an upperclassmen took their time to help. We're all student learning, and no one should be remotely upset that things may take a little slower than originally planned.
Ugh this is stressful. Mainly because we are constantly told that even on crew we should be proactive and constantly ask if there is something we can do. I understand the benefit of having proactive crew members, it keeps energy up and is a little bit of a safety net for the crew head, because if the crew is competent than they might catch something the head missed. But I also get the message from author Mark. Because they aren’t in an educational setting. Their load ins cost money, and especially with large tours with dates back to back , there isn’t enough time to have to re do something that was done incorrectly because there is that Tuesday night performance coming. And also at my internship this summer each person that came with that tour knew exactly what their mission was. To a T. With long running tours like that where every second is organized they really have no need to just trust a stranger with jobs that matter. Conflicteddddd
Having been on the local crew end of the situation I aslo agree with Chris that I fully understand their hesitation when interacting with the local in regards of not trying to assume people have skill set that they do not. That being said their is a line between handling things yourself if you are a road crew member and that of micro managing projects when you see that the project is going in the right direction. The reason I say this is that is due to the fact that having someone looking over your shoulder while you are working is a demeaning feeling and does not help build a good working relationship, one should most definitely check on projects but if you don't wish to do it yourself than trust that you have explained a situation enough to let the crew handle it.
I have been in similar situations but in a weird way. I have worked on crews for touring acts where there is no road "crew" per se, except for the artist and designer, and I have been in positions where the designer is questioning an action or task that they really don't know anything about, and they just want to bandy their ego about. I have never worked in a concert venue or the like before though, as the work I did was mainly for an theatre/performance production company. It's interesting to see others' comments about CMU's crew here. I have been told repeatedly throughout my life, and I hold this to heart, that I should never be afraid to ask questions. As such, whenever I do not know how to do something, or I don't know where something is, I simply ask. It would make no sense for me to blindly go about trying to find something or complete a task that I know nothing about when that would take inordinately more time, or make it so the task is not completed well. It is always faster to ask, and it has the added benefit of allowing one to learn whatever skill or knowledge one was lacking.
I have to say as well, that I have always felt welcome to ask away here at CMU, and I have never seen anyone get disrespected because of a lack of knowledge, at least in the freshman class.
This is another in a great series of articles posted on here about how to behave at a crew cal for a touring show. On the shows I have worked with Local 3 I have definitely seen multiple people who could have benefited from these articles. The all boil down to the same piece of advice though: no matter what experience you think you have more of then the road guys and gals, you still need to follow their instructions. Even if you think what they are doing is dumb, you still need to do it. The only exception to this rule is if you are told to do something that you believe is unsafe, in which case it is acceptable to bring it to the road guys to prevent injury to personel or property.
This seems so relatable to my life right now. During crew as freshman we are told what to do, which is great because I know little about carpentry, some of the other kids in my class know a lot about carpentry. So when a crew head wants us to do something they will not assume we know anything will do step by step instructions which is great for me. However I feel like the people with actual experience must get annoyed. Reading this article made me realize that the reasons crew heads do it is because they want it done correctly. If they do not know the person or their ability's how will they know they can get the job done and done safely. Also he is saying that you should not be offended if they do not want you to do something and their is probably a reason for it. Here at CMU they have very distinct ways of doing something so as a freshman I might not know the ways they do something things. But it is fine since I am learning!
I think articles like this are eminently important, because one of the major things we learn here at CMU is how to work well with others in order to build a set, run a show or etc. However, not everyone has much experience about working with a road crew, even though that could be a large portion of our future employment. I think in almost all cases you should defer to the road crew, because these are people who basically live with this setup, and should be considered as authorities on the subject. the only exception to this i think we can all agree is if they ask you to do something that you feel unsafe doing. otherwise just ask questions of your crew heads or the road crew, and you should be able to be a useful person in the load in or strike of whatever event you are doing.
Like people have previously said, this article reminds me so much of the crew environment that we have here. There is a real lack of communication between freshman and sophomore crews and their crew heads about how much we know. This results in people given tasks that are way above their skill level, or people getting put on easier tasks that could actually help with something at a much higher level. Clearly explaining each task and asking if people have any questions or concerns could help to start a dialogue about this. I think that over-explaining is always a much safer option that under-explaining, but then of course you run the risk of sounding condescending. This could apply to both educational and professional environments. However, if everyone goes with a good attitude and knows that you just have the best interest of the show at heart then perhaps they will be more understanding.
I think this is a very relevant article. Especially for us here at Carnegie Mellon. When I cam in as a freshman, I kinda felt like I was part of the road crew, knowing how to hang a light, but not knowing where the stairs were, or where the lights were stored. Recently I have been noticing when there is over hire and they don't really know what is going on. Because School of Drama does things a little different from road houses. We sort of act as a regional theater because most of our building and producing of the show is in house. Being a student already used the system here at school, It is really cool when you are able to teach others who are not familiar with the space and how things work, and by doing so you learn how to work well with new people and you also get a little practice in educating. I hope to meet people on the road throughout my career that will make me feel at ease when walking into a new roadhouse and not knowing where anything is.
This is the second article I have read recently about the dynamic between the local and road crew on a tour. I think it is pretty interesting how they see each other and the frustrations that they bring out in each other. I think this kind of relates to run crew here at school. I just finished a load in with a freshman crew and I can see similarities. I do not think my crew and I had a road crew vs local crew dynamic, but I know that for a lot of shows the crew head is not as trusting as he/she could be and the crew can get frustrated by that. But at the same time, some crew members might think they know what they are supposed to do but then mess something up. My crew was great and I could really trust them to complete a task while I helped another group of my crew, but there is always some nervousness looming since I have seen crew members do some crazy things.
This article brought up an interesting point as to something I was discussing the other day with some other DP students. We proposed the idea of having a certification system for local and road crews so that the knowledge base could be standardized between crews and problems like this that hinder productivity could be avoided in the long run. I think it would be a great idea and fairly feasible. Especially for crew members that didn't have a college degree or any professional education. This would allow for ultimately, a system where there was not a halt in working to have things explained unless they were overtly complicated by the level of detail required for the specific event or venue.
Hmm yeah this is a tough one. Hard not to assume the worst when you have been burned before. I have been part of the "local" crew here in Pittsburgh on a couple of large arena gigs, and the locals really do get treated like box pushers for the most part. Everything was totally tool-less, and if you got to hold a hammer, you were a hot shot. For the most part, people just barked orders at me, and just like this article outlined, did not leave any room for imagination on how to accomplish the task I was given.
I think the ideas presented in this article definitely apply to more labor scenarios than just road crew vs local crew. How do you explain a task to somebody thoroughly, and the way you want something done, without sounding condescending or rude. And if you backpedal or let the assignee go off and do their own thing, they may come back with a product that is not what you wanted or won't work for whatever reason.
Sorry I'm late to this, but I'll play devil's advocate — as a young road crew member, a lot of the houses I play have stagehands who have been doing this longer than I've been alive, and I find when I listen to the locals I learn different ways to do things, often better ways.
If I assume it's the best local crew in the world and treat them that way, either they are and we get along great, or they're not, and I end up having to explain how to use a wrench, but we still get along great.
The most important thing is for the road crew to remember they're guests in the locals' house, and for both crew to remember that at the end of the day we're here for the audience.
Show up on time, do your job, don't be a dick.
This is an interesting perspective on this matter. Whenever I volunteer to do something on any crew, I always assume the other person assumes that I know what I am doing since I volunteered. I can imagine that it would be difficult for an entirely different set of hands to come in and help put up an entire show without any communication beforehand. I think it is good to weary of a new face in general, not just load-in crews, because it is a bad idea to assume someones amount of knowledge. If they are less knowledgeable than you assume, then there might be a safety hazard that occurs or you might end up re-doing the task yourself. If they are more knowledgeable than you assume, then you risk insulting them and talking down to them which creates negative environments. I think it is safe to simply ask if they have ever done the task before, but adding that you just want to make sure that it will be done correctly. If the person seems offended, then it is only fare to reassure them that it is not what you meant just that you have work with a large variety of people. If they are still offended after that, then it is on them and it is best to just move on. In general, I think it is better to assume the person knows very little until they prove to you otherwise simply because of how time consuming and dangerous a simple mistake can be.
This his soo close to home for me. After spending 4 years on the road travel the world I have seen and worked with every kind of person on the spectrum. After a while you can kind of get a feel for who is going to be useful and who are the local crew you’re going to have to baby sit. And that might sound condescending but it’s equal to or less than as condescending as an older generation that have spent the last 3-4 decades being a local and them thinking they could load in your show faster. But even saying that I have on the other hand learned so much from that generation as well. But that goes back to the randomness of working in a different local everyday. If I were to try to give advice to new touring crew member its listen to the leaders on your tour, but most importantly BE HUMBLE. Especially when your green. Be up front about being new. I have to preference that by saying you will be giving shit for being the new person and even more for being the new girl, (sad but true) it will blow over and be better for you in the future. The kids who get on the road and think they know it all are the first ones to get it the hardest. Nobody like a ‘know it all’ but everyone loves an ‘eager beaver’. (Sorry i know that was lame) There is no way to be prepared enough, you have to and will learn on the job. Having a hard backbone will come in time, but you have to earn it. And if i were to give advice to local crew (having never been a local myself) I would first agree with everything said in this article. These road crew have been doing this single show from anywhere from a week to 5 years on the same show. More importantly they are loading in and out 2 a month; once a week or even once a day, in some cases. If you were to do the same load in and out 3 days in a row, trust me you will know that show better than one else in the world.. literally. The only things they really need to know that is venue specific are, where are things are. Dressing room, power, easiest path to get things from A to B, places to eat near by. More importantly, how much can the ceiling hold, how much can this balcony hold, what are the state rules that are different every else, where is the bathroom. What Roads don’t need to know is how they did in ‘your day’, how long you have been doing theatre, what ever other tour has ever done (unless asked) or what would be easer for to do (again unless asked or you see their usual plan isn’t working) Every part of a load in of a show thats been on the road for a while has everything planned out. Its a matter of adapting to the new venue that changes the dynamic and slows things down. If a roadie is looking around and doesn’t seem to know what’s going on its because they are trying to come up with a work around plan for how to keep going with the load in with out stopping everything to wait on the one thing that was suppose to come next. That is the best/worst part for a roadie. Making up the load in everyday and making it work. But they cant do it alone. They could not do it without the local crew, so just jump in and help out, or standby to hurry up!
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